Mission: Accountability

Episode 12- Mission: Accountability

In this episode of Driven By The Mission, we sit down with Katie Ethridge, a respected leader and lifelong champion of student-athlete success. 
Katie offers candid insight into how meaningful relationships, individualized support, and a clear sense of purpose can transform lives both on and off the field. She also honors the legacy of her late colleague and dear friend, Alise Svihla, whose passion and positivity continue to inspire professionals across the industry.
Tune into this episode to discover why behind every successful student-athlete is a Hidden Hero who chose to care, invest, and stay committed to the Mission.

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Subscribe / Rate / Share if an episode has impacted you—because if it helps one, it’s worth it.

Follow DBTM @drivenbythemission on IG, Facebook, TikTok
Subscribe / Rate / Share if an episode has impacted you—because if it helps one, it’s worth it.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Driven by the Mission, hosted by Raymond Harrison and Gene Boyd. With over 60 years of combined experience as former Division I student athletes and leaders in college athletics, we're here to spotlight the passionate professionals who support student athlete growth behind the scenes. As the industry evolves, so does the need for holistic development, life skills, wellness, and performance support that prepare athletes for life beyond sport. Each episode, we bring you conversations with the hidden heroes driving this message forward. This is Driven by the Mission.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

Gene, we're back. I'm really excited about today's episode. This guest that we have today is a personal, personal favorite of mine. We spent some time together at the University of South Carolina. I am really, really excited about her continued growth as a professional, as a leader. There's so much passion about just who she is and what she's meant to me. And so uh I'm gonna try like you, Gene, uh, a couple of episodes ago with Skip or with Carl, where you try to keep it together. I'm gonna try to be very professional here. Uh, but I get a chance to introduce Katie Etherich. Katie is uh currently uh with the NCAA as part of a governance and membership affairs. She's been there several years. Uh we'll talk a little bit about that. Uh but Katie's role as a hidden hero in the space of academic support and student athlete development and um has really blossomed as a leader. She started her academic career at Georgia State, went from there to NC State. Um she was part of their academic intern program. Interesting fun fact, Jean, her mentors at NC State is a woman named Maria Tyson. Maria and my wife were interns at the NCAA together. And so there was a connection, and I believe Maria connected Katie to me and then Katie interviewed at South Carolina. One of the best hires I've ever made. Uh, worked directly with football for a long time, worked with a lot of different sports, but did a phenomenal job. She took on some other responsibilities, student athlete development. She oversaw that unit for us. She did some staffing, she did a lot of things that were assigned to her, but she did some things that um she just knew there was a need to get done. Uh, but her greatest work at South Carolina that I always remember is just her connection with her student athletes. And she went on from South Carolina to Austin P, where she oversaw her own academic unit as the associate AD for student success there. So um, man, oh man, I am ready to pass this on to Katie. But before I do, again, I want to do this one my way. She always took great pride in her work, always teachable, always on this quest to learn and grow. People have great respect for Katie because of her character, but also work ethic. She served as a mentor to many young staff, taking what she had been provided and doing it for others. And then she's just had this ability to work with a diverse set of student athletes because she never saw them any differently. Just she just saw them as people. People that she wanted to serve and help and provide impact into their lives. And so, Katie, that's what people say about you. So I want to uh put an end to my long intro. So welcome. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Thank you. Thank you so much. That was a very nice intro, and I appreciate all the kind words. I wasn't expecting quite that that um in depth. And so I appreciate that. And I I have always tried to show that I care, and so I it's nice to hear that it's coming back, um, and that's what's they can see. So I appreciate you guys having me.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Why'd you say yes, by the way, when we asked you to come on a show?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

I just love what you guys were doing. The minute you texted me and was like, hey, we're starting a podcast, and uh, you know, you should listen. And um I did, and then you're you caught me at the right time because I just started listening to podcasts. I had been opposed to it for a while, and then my brother was very frustrated with me about that. And so then I started walking a lot more recently, and I've been adding podcasts to my walks. And so you told me about it first. I was listening to it, and I just I have always been passionate about you know the support that people can provide to student athletes in every capacity, but obviously academics. And I was like, you guys are doing what has needed to be done for a very long time. I think our industry gets criticized a lot, I think our jobs get criticized a lot by outsiders who don't know what we do. And they're like, you work a lot, and I don't know why you're helping them so much. And like, what is really the benefit of this? And so I think that your podcast has really shown the benefits of it and the purpose of it and why we do what we do and the impact it can have. And so when you asked me to do a part of it, I was so excited um to be able to do this.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

You used to be your boss back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

He did give me my first full-time job, so I felt like I had to had to respect that.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Katie, um, I've always appreciated your work as well. And like many of us, we all have a lot of crossover in the business and people that we know, and similarly, um, I've always heard those types of narratives about you. And it makes me think in such an industry that's so diverse, people from literally every walk of life, international individuals who come into this country to participate in what we call the most ingenious human development platform. What is it that got you into this headspace where you thought this would be something that you want to do? The diversity, the people from all different spaces, the different sports, right? All all the things that we know exist in college athletics. What got you started on this path? What what was your inspiration or your origin story for how you even got into the business?

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Yeah, I well, I was not a student athlete in college. I think that's a little odd to find sometimes in our field. So I had no idea this world even existed. And I loved sports. I grew up in a family where my, I was the youngest of three. My mom always jokes that I would play Barbies with my sister and go shoot a basketball with my brother. Like whatever, I just wanted to fit in. I wanted to be a part of whatever they were doing. And then the sports stuff kind of stuck a little bit more. My brother and I have always bonded over that. And so when I went to Georgia, I actually did not know what I wanted to do. I think this is what also connects me with my student athletes. I got there and I was gonna be a meteorologist. I wanted to be Al Roker. And immediately I was like, I took my first geography class and I was like, this isn't really for me. I don't know what I'm doing. And then I went business because that's what everybody at Georgia does. They have a great business school, you go business. I took my first accounting class, hated it. And I was like, this is not for me. So then what I do with a lot of my students is I sat down, I pulled out the course catalog, the paper book at the time, and I went through every major and I circled all the ones that I thought were cool and the ones that I was like absolutely not, all my sciences and maths. I said no. Then I narrowed it down, and Georgia sport management wasn't really a thing at that time, and so they had sport like journalism, sport education, and sport um science, I think. So I went sport journalism and worked internal sports my whole time at Georgia and just loved it so much. Thought I might go do rec sports. Did an internship with the Atlanta Motor Speedway because that was close to me, and I did an internship with the PGA championship. Both of those were great experiences for me, but they were in marketing and they were in event management. I enjoyed sports way too much to be working events. I learned that quickly. I want to be a fan, I wanted to go to games, I didn't want to have to be working. So then I decided to go get my master's at Georgia State. I just applied for a grad assistantship in their athletics department, and I got placed so thankfully in academics and immediately fell in love with it. I loved the relationships you could build with the students, and that's what really got me going on this path. My mom had been a teacher forever, um, and so I always valued education, but I knew I didn't want to teach. So this was the perfect combination to me of combining sports that I've always loved, and then with the academic side of things. And I remember early on at Georgia State, we didn't have football at the time, and it was a pretty small staff. And so as a grad assistant, I was responsible for four teams. And I remember loving the like certification process, which I think is so weird because a lot of people don't. But when they were teaching me the rules of the progress toward degree and knowing the 40%, 60%, I'm like, this is so fun. I love figuring this out and like how to help the student get to this graduation point. You know, this is amazing. But I also was able to help a student connect with a friend of mine from Georgia get an internship that summer. And my mom had some resources. I helped one of my students who was an education major get some tools from her. So it's like you just kept getting to make these connections and help them, and like it just was so fulfilling to me. And then from then on, I kind of knew what I wanted to do. And so I was able to get the post-grad internship at NC State, which was in their second year. They've had it going for a long time now. It's a very well-respected program. I learned a ton there, it was great. And then got to get hired by Raymond at South Carolina, and I think in the beginning, you have your mindset on like, I want to work with this team. Like, this is the sport I want to work with. And while I had that, I also was pretty open to like, I'll take whatever they'll give me at this point. And I'm so thankful for that. And I think one of the things I continue to tell people as I mentored them is like, it's not about the team, it's about the students. And you can find positives in every single team. And I got the privilege of working with right off the bat with swimming and diving while I had freshman football. And it was such a good balance for me because you just have different challenges with every single team and every single group. And you know, a lot of people joke with me and they're like, when you get the teams at the golfs, the tennises that always have like the three nine team GPAs and things like that, they're like, they must be so easy. And I'm like, Well, they they still present challenges, like they still they want to triple major, and you got to figure out how to keep them eligible for that. And so um, I I just found there's value with every single student and every single team, and I am so appreciative that I got the the opportunity to work with so many different ones.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

I appreciate that. There's so many ways and routes to go here. I'm learning about you, Katie, and I think what's so beautiful is that as long as we've known each other, this platform is is giving me an opportunity to learn. I didn't I didn't realize that your path up until the point of NC State. And now that I know it, it everything just makes great sense. Uh especially the ways you impacted us at at South Carolina. Like you said, you just took on every anything we needed and you and you did it well. I was gonna ask you, going back to your NC State time, I think it's pretty full circle that that's where I am now. And I benefited from that pipeline. There's so many people that came out of that program and did phenomenal work in this field. Uh, but I was also reading that you were one of three interns that year and uh you talked about being the last to get a job.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

Was there a level of anxiety there? Talk about that process. How was that for you?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Yeah, that was very stressful. I bring that up to all to this day. I'm supervising an intern now at the NCA, and I'm like, listen, there's 25 of you. One of you is gonna be the last one to get a job. Like, it's gonna be okay. So yeah, I there was three of us, we were very close. You were in the trenches together every day doing study halls, and so we all were very supportive of each other. But it was tough because it towards April, you start applying for similar jobs and you started trying to figure out like what is your next step. And some of them we weren't always going for exactly the same, but you still were like worried about am I gonna get a job? It was a stressful time because you wanted to get a job. So NC State had a position open for one of us to get the position there. That's also a tough uh situation to be in because you're like now competing against each other for that. They made the right choice at the time, I think, because it was the position that the one of the interns was doing that. So it made sense to just kind of put her in that position and she was qualified for it and everything. So it made sense. Then the other one who was with me in football, she gets hired um at Georgetown, and then I'm the last man standing, and I'm like, oh no, like what's gonna happen? And I, you know, you start to kind of question yourself. You're like, what did I not do right? What am I not like proving to everybody that I like deserve to be in this field? So it was a lot of trying to build my confidence back up and try to figure out how I can like prepare myself more. But I so I went to M4A that summer without a job. Um, I would think I had like a couple more weeks left of the internship. They did give us an opportunity to stay a couple weeks, and I actually said no because I was like, like, I need to devote all my time. I I'm ready to move on, I gotta figure this out. And so, but in fora was great, it gave me a lot of opportunity. I connected with you there. I connected with What was it that year?

SPEAKER_03 14:02

Do you remember?

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Phoenix, I think.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Which year?

SPEAKER_00 14:08

2007.

SPEAKER_03 14:11

2006 was in Pittsburgh, I remember that.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Yeah, 2007. Yep. So I was able to connect with you and a lot of other people, honestly, and it was really great for me. And a lot of jobs were starting to open up, and and a lot of people wanted to interview people at Inforay. So it was good, and I felt a lot better. I did go home. Um, so I left NC Stay Left Raleigh and I went home and stayed with my parents for like two weeks, and I said, We gotta get this, I gotta get this job. Well, my parents, but I was ready to go. Yeah. And so then I had an interview at College of Charleston and then with South Carolina, pretty much within like a week of each other. I actually got offered both, and I never knew that. Yeah, I was offered the one right before you offered me. Wow. But as you know, I accepted your offer on the spot. I didn't know anything about negotiating at that time, but I accepted the offer.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Saying Raymond Low Ball.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

He took care of me, I promise. It was fine. But I I wanted to go, and I say this a lot to my like people I also mentor, is it would have been a one-man show at College of Charleston at the time. It would have been a great opportunity, and it was nothing against them. But I was really excited to go to a place where we had a larger staff. I could learn from a lot of people, I could grow. And you were so passionate about changing the culture there and like getting them on the right track that I just was like, this is this is where I want to be. And so that showed me that it all worked out the right way for the three of us, as hard as it was. And I know it's really tough for people to hear that, and I say it a lot these days too of like, just be patient with the process. Everything works out the way it's supposed to. And when you're in that moment, it's hard, right? Because you're just like, I'm just ready to what do I need to do to get there? But ultimately, it was the right fit for me. I ended up being at South County for 10 years. It was such a great experience for me. I grew so much. Um, and I am so thankful for that time.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Katie, you you've always come off to me personally and from narratives, and you and Raymond have both spoken of this, even in our short time so far. A very humble person and someone who is gonna do whatever it takes to help for the greater good. If if the program's over and everyone left and the chairs are still there, you're probably gonna fold up some chairs and put them away. Just that kind of person. And and and I'm I think that's a characteristic that has become less prevalent in the time period that we're living in. Um I'm wondering where that came from. Through your family upbringing or influences that you've had in your life, where where where's that piece come? That I'm here to be a part of this team and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to help us be successful.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Yeah, um, I'm I'm actually really passionate about that too. Um I was definitely raised that way. Both of my parents worked extremely hard and showed that to all of us about like you need to work hard for things and you need to be a team player and contribute and help out people. So I saw it every day. My parents both were that way. Um, and even though they worked so hard, they always were still at everything that we did. They had us very involved in things growing up. They just had us in everything. But they made it to that and they supported us through that, even though I saw them working very hard. My mom was always grading papers late at night. She went and taught classes at uh Mercer University sometimes. So like she just was always busy. My dad's the same way. He had multiple jobs at times to help support us. So they worked hard and they instilled that in all of us. And then I just I never wanted people to like question that I was a hard worker and that I was willing to do what I needed to do. And so I just kept doing that. And then I think at South Carolina I learned because Raymond was so great at like giving me these opportunities. I was really big on making sure I understood what everybody's role was. I think that's something that some people like they get siloed and they're like, I'm only responsible for these group of students, and I'm just gonna do that. And I wanted to know how the learning specialists work with this student. I wanted to know how our tutoring program operated. I got life skills, and that's now student athlete development, because I was involved. I was like, let me know how they're doing the programming, let me figure out how I can help with this. I got books at one point because I was like, we got to fix this book problem. And I was like, let me see what I can do to help. I think that's the one thing I still could never fix.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

But books was a probably still not to this day.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

I I hope I never have to do books again in my life. I I just always wanted to be able to figure out how we can do things better and improve things and be more efficient. And then when I got to Austin P as a mid-major, I think that's where I realized as a leading my own unit, I had to lead by example. Like I had to make sure. To your point, Gina, I smiled at this because we we did host some student development events. We did host the all sports banquet at the end of the year that was a huge to-do. And I just remember looking around the room and seeing who's helping us tear this stuff down at the end of the night. And that's who I want to continue to be beside me the rest of the time. And I did it, and so I made sure that I was continuing to do that myself. I was still doing study hall in the evenings so that my staff knew, like, I'm right here with you, I'm right here in the trenches with you doing this. And so um, I just think it's important. I respect people who work hard, and I want to do that in return, and I want to show that to my staff and my students that you need to work hard. Um, and so I I just feel like it's a very important skill and trait to have.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

Gene, I do want to spend some time talking about her current work with NTAA, and I know you do too. Um she she talked about the passion of wanting to take on the challenge and change the culture. That situation that we inherited was very challenging. And I tell people when we got there, it was the one place where the student athletes would tell you, I'm not going to class and I don't care because nobody's gonna do anything about it. And and I think there was a point where I would have uh really heated conversations with coaches. There were things that I learned about being a leader there. There were there were so many things that helped us in terms of building the culture. You know, she just talked about things happen the way they're supposed to happen. But on this road to getting South Carolina on the right side from an academic standpoint, there were things that happened along the way that really challenged the staff. Whether it's a starting quarterback being suspended from the first game of the football season because of attendance policy or uh having a starting defensive player ineligible for the bowl game, those moments seem to be very devastating. Right? Anytime you have something like that the staff saw it as a reflection on them. And one of the things that I I learned quickly as a leader was that to her point, I gotta be in this with them. And I've gotta help them understand as I'm hurting that there's something greater that's gonna come out of this. But the thing that I really want Katie to talk about is that she was more in the trenches. Um she was working with the student athletes and building relationships and working with additional staff that we had. Katie, talk about your role and the challenges that you saw with football that you were able to overcome over time. And then also talk about your Overseeing life skills. We had an AD, it was his passionary. Him and his wife were very involved, and Katie had to navigate that. And so I I imagine those things you learned paves the way for you down the road. Can you talk about those experiences?

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Yeah, I think with the student athletes, the accountability piece is just huge. And I learned that early on. I was not the most comfort, I became a lot more confrontational, but I was less confrontational at that age. And I was just trying to build relationships, gain their trust, and figure out almost make them feel guilty if they let me down. That's how I started out my relationships with some of them. And it worked, to be honest with you. It was like we ended up getting over some of the humps. And so, and early on, even before I took over life skills, I would go to community service with them. And I cannot tell you how helpful doing those types of things with our student athletes can be. It let them see me in a different light, and it let me see them in a different light. And we weren't only talking academics, we weren't only talking about going to class. And then that spreads into other things. Where, you know, I remember one of my guys by his senior year, he's in a play, and he's like, Will you come to my play? And I'm like, Yes. And now he's actually in a show on Netflix, by the way. But anyway, so super proud of him. And like I cared about them so much more than just even academically. I know that we say not their sport, but even just more than just student to me. Because as an academic person, it was important to know I care about you as the whole. I want to get to know you as a whole. You'll get to know me, and we're gonna work through this together. And so I think the accountability piece though, I remember I didn't always want to turn them in because you know the strength coach was pretty intense at the time, and they would get in a lot of trouble. And I was like, oh, I don't, that's gonna burn a bridge. And then you realize once you do it a couple of times, it doesn't. They actually need that accountability and they they thrive more when you give it to them. And you've said this before, Raymond, you instilled it in me, but like what what you do in one space is what you do in every space. And I think I just had a campus visit recently where we went and we were doing our stuff from the NCA, but one of the coaches was talking about the academic progress rate and some issues they were having. And he's just like, So I just need to go recruit all these like smart kids, and I that's all we can do. We're not gonna win. And I was so insulted by that comment because I was like, in my personal experience of 18 years on campus, the years that they had the most academic success is when they had the most success on their sport. And so it kind of quieted the room, and I was appreciative of that because I'm like, that's not the way we should be thinking about this. Yeah, and then the other thing I hear a lot of our coaches these days say, I'm scared to hold them accountable because of the transfer portal and because they're gonna leave me if I do. And I also think they're gonna leave anyway, like you're gonna lose them regardless. So why not hold them accountable, help them learn some life lessons, help them get better for like to be men and women in the world? And so it's just very important that accountability is key there. With the life skills piece, I was excited to take it on. I see the value in it so much, and I think it's so important to have for our student athletes. I struggled a little bit transparently because the football student athletes I was working with didn't want to go to the events, so I would spend months planning an event, and all I'd hear the whole week leading up to it was them say, Can I get out of it? I don't want to go. Can I what can I do to get? And I'm like, wow, y'all, I put all this time and effort into it. And to your point, the AD and his wife were very involved, which was good and bad. I think it was very helpful because they gave us the resources, they made things mandatory, which I've been at schools where it wasn't, and that was a key. I think things needed to be mandatory because the students don't will want to get out if they can. But the rewarding part of all of it is at the end of events when they would have a different tune, and they would say, you know, this was actually pretty helpful. The networking events were always my favorite because by that point they really saw the value in what we were doing, and they would leave with some connections from people at those events, and I just was so happy and proud of like, okay, that worked out. But I remember coming to you after I think two years of doing it, and I was like, I can't do I can't do this anymore.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

She advocated for herself, G.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

I'm an advisor at heart, and I need to go back to like that part of it. Um, we joke that it's the raw at least. We'll we'll get to her, but she like she had that mentality of being a student athlete development person as like so excited and positive all the time, and I wasn't that way. So I was just like, all right, how are we gonna do this?

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Uh icebreaker, game in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Yeah, I'm like, how can we make this? But ironically enough, then I go to Austin P and I'm overseeing the whole student development area.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

And I was so happy that I had my experience so that I could help my staff put these events on. And I'm really proud of, I think a lot of people look at it like you were at an SEC school where you had all this money and all these resources to produce these events, and then I go to an Austin P where we just don't have that. I never let that be an excuse. I'm like, we're still gonna make sure we have the exact type of events and we can utilize resources that we have on our campus and we can utilize each other. I was also fortunate enough to have staff members who were amazing facilitators, and I was like, you guys can lead these and we're gonna do it and we're gonna make it good. And so I think that's something I'm really proud of, too, is like taking what I was able to do at South Carolina, and then we could have implemented it at Austin P on the same scale, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

This is gonna be as direct and blunt as I can say it. As a non-student athlete, white woman who's working with South Carolina football, predominantly African-American student athletes. What would you say that you learned about being effective in terms of you know motivation, discipline, and all the things? You and you gave a couple of snippets of didn't want to tell on these folks. The community doesn't appreciate snitching, right? Or or whatever the thing is. But as you know, I've heard Raymond talk about your work there in that particular segment of the population and how dynamic and powerful it was. I've I've wondered, and now I'm asking you what you took into consideration, how you evolved in the space, um, because it certainly prepared you, you know, for your career moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Yeah, I don't think I thought about it to be when I started. I just think I was trying to be authentic and genuine and be myself. And I always have enjoyed like getting to know people and having relationships, and so I just think that that's what how it started. I definitely recognize like a year into it, like I'm a white female working with predominantly black males in these spaces. You know, I worked with football for six years, and then I went on to work with men's basketball for 10. I worked with a lot of other sports along the way, but those were who I spent the most most of my time with. And I think I just figured out early on, like, I'm not trying to be something I'm not. And so I can't act like I understand where they came from. I can't I can't act like we grew up in the same situations. There's still some commonalities though. Like there's still some ways to talk about like just anything we've kind of been through, our passion for sports. Like, how did we get to these places? A lot of the students I did work with were from the South. I've been living in the South for the majority of my life. So there were some connections we could make, but I never assumed that I understood where they were coming from. And so I think they always knew I was coming out of a place of respect. And I just wanted to get to know them. And I just wanted, and I genuinely cared about them, and I think that they could see that. You know, these students are so smart when it comes to like seeing through the BS, to be honest. And I think people don't give them enough credit for that because as an academic advisor, we get it all. The students want to come and tell you everything, so they'll tell you all the stuff that's going on with their coaches and their teams, and they know who's being real and who's not being real. And so I just think that if you just I was always really big on making sure they saw who I truly was and that I genuinely cared for them, and um in return, and I was vulnerable. Y'all have had a lot of guests on here that have kind of shown that, and I would tell them I did not do well. I was on probation my first semester in college. A lot of people don't know that. They assume if you work in academics, you must have been a 4.0 student. And the reality was I just didn't go to class. I had had perfect attendance my entire schooling until then. And I get to Georgia and I said, Oh, I don't have to go to class, nobody's checking on me. And so I didn't go, and so I did not do well, and I had to get myself out of that hole and work myself out of it, and so and I changed my major, as I mentioned, a couple of times. So I I never had it all figured out, and I try to tell them that, and I think they appreciated that um and knew that like I was being genuine and who I was and that I cared, but with motivation, I think it's tricky, every student's different, and you have to figure out, and that was another thing I think in general, and I brought this to my staff. I do not like a one size fits all method to what we do. I did not want, even though I just language I know sometimes we have to have a group study hall, but some of the students are gonna thrive in a much different environment, and so I think it's important to really figure out what that student needs and like make sure we're giving them what they need in those resources. And so I was really big on individualizing all of my students. I didn't mind working all day and night if that meant a student got his individual attention that he needed, and I loved it. Like it made me so happy to do it because I was like, I can I'm making an impact on this student and I'm helping him be better.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Let me just let me make this statement on the back end of that. I I appreciate the frank addressing of the question the way it was framed. And I think that the world that we're living in can day today could use a lot more of that care, empathy, wanting to understand who you're working with. I don't have to be just like you, I don't have to have the same background, but it's a human experience, and we're trying to accomplish the same things. So I I I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

Gene, one of the things um that that Katie was really good at, she spent time with them. She was patient, she would she would teach them, she would help them, she wouldn't do their work for them, but because she sat down and invested in that work with them, they felt connected to her. They knew that she was in it. It had nothing to do with eligibility, had nothing to do in it with any of that. She knew if I just spent time and I invest, that there would be a reward on the end. And I think that was a secret sauce for her. Um, I think it's funny though, you know, Katie talked about not a former student athlete. I didn't play sports in college, but what I'm hearing is you had some student athlete tendencies. You didn't go to class, you didn't know what your major was, and all of that stuff. So there was some things that you could relate to, right? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

I do want to talk about another segment. Uh you you said something earlier, it's not about the sport, it's about the students. You know that there is a segment of student athletes that you are fond of, but also that have some commonalities. I think working with first generation college students, you know, the access to college uh gives them an opportunity um to discover a better life. Um but there's also an international student athlete population, and they have transitions and challenges that they have to navigate as well. Homesickness, uh coming from Georgia to South Carolina is one thing. Coming from a different country is a whole different concept. Um talk to us about what you learned from them and then some of the similarities because they're still just students, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Yeah, I had the privilege of working with women's tennis from pretty much beginning of my career until the end. So for all 18 years, I was able to have them. And the majority of my students were international. There was obviously I had a lot of other international students across the board too, but that's the teams I remember specifically like spending a lot of time with. And again, early on going into it, I cared about them as people and getting to know them, but I wasn't thinking about the big picture of like how m difficult this must be for these students to have to come over and navigate this new process. And so I just would start talking to them and I'd get to know them and I'd ask them about their home country and I'd ask them like, what's your favorite meal? What do you miss the most about home? And they just seemed to really connect with that, and it resonated with them, and they were like, she cares. And then, you know, I didn't take my first international trip until I was 29, two years into my time at South Carolina, and I immediately fell in love with travel. And I have since, you know, it's been a goal of mine to hit all 50 states. I'm pretty close, and it I've been trying to hit a lot of countries. I'm on 17, and so it's just like really important to me. And if you've ever traveled internationally, it's extremely difficult. Figuring out their transit systems, figuring out their languages, figuring out how to order meals. And to imagine that these students come over at 18 to do that and live in an entirely different world and culture is just they are so brave to me. And I just think it's important that they, of course, they know their sport and they're like they have a built-in team when they get here, which I think is great. But they need people outside of their team to be like supportive and to be, you know, engaged with them. And so I just wanted to always provide that for them. I wanted to provide an open door to say, if you're homesick, come talk to me. Let's talk through this. And then being mindful of like that they don't get to go home maybe at Christmas and that they may have to be here for a lot longer than our, you know, us students have to be. They taught me so much because as I continued to want to travel, I just always would ask them more and more and figure out things, and it enhanced my experiences. A lot of them would tell me where to stay if I went to certain countries and where to go. And I'm just so appreciative of that. And I feel like it was a definitely a two-way relationship. I struggled my first semester, and I was in an in-state school. I came from a small town and a small school, and Georgia was overwhelming to me. And I didn't love my first semester. I was like, this is kind of tough. Looking back now, it was some of the best time I ever had. I loved my experience, but I think that's the thing why I really connect with my international students in their first semester, is like trying to give them that relationship so they know they have someone to come to when they need that help and to help guide them through that process. And then the same with freshmen. I have always felt that way with my freshmen. But that first semester is just so key. I want them to like feel that they have a place there, that they feel connected to the school, they they have someone they can trust and rely on. Um, I just think that's so important to making their experience be a great one in the long run.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

Katie, you you spent a significant amount of time so far today talking about relationships with student athletes. I want to transition and talk a little bit about relationships, mentorships, opportunities that you've had to lead and serve and help people in this industry based on things you've learned along the way. Uh, but I want to talk in particular about one person who's really important to you, important to all of us. Uh, Gene and I talk often about this podcast wouldn't be a reality if we don't connect after learning about Marlin to show Say's passing. You have a dear friend, Ali Sevila, who is endeared in this industry, has a very similar story in terms of just her love and passion and energy, not just for students, but for people, better known as the Happy Box Lady. There's uh there's these things, these little tabs that she would send all the time with an inspirational quote. Um, she was always so very thoughtful, and I have those on my desk uh to this day, and and I also have a happy box. But I want to give you an opportunity, given your relationship with her, to talk about her. I think it's so appro appropriate for you to just tell us a little bit more about Elise and her impact on you.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Yeah, very happy to. Um, I will start with the happy boxes because I think that is what she was so well known for. And I I remember going to her session at M4A and her presenting on what a happy box is, and for those that don't know, it's a box where our field can get a little bit exhausting and tiring and you're defeated sometimes. And so she created these happy boxes out of a shoebox, and we decorate them, and you put in all these good moments that happen. And so if you get a good card from a student or a good email from someone, and you just print it out and you put it in your happy box. And I I still have my happy box to this day. I've c I've continued to add to it, which I'm so appreciative of, but it was really her whole saying was like, love what you do, and that was you know her mantra through everything, and she lived it until the day she passed. And I learned so much from her. Um, I remember I didn't love recruiting, I'm not an extrovert, and you never knew what you were gonna get. The students are kind of all over the place. Sometimes they're really engaged, sometimes they do not care, and I would just struggle. I'd be like, man, I don't know how to keep them engaged. Like, I just want them to be excited about school and everything, what I'm talking about. And so I I struggled for years for that. And I sat in on one of hers one day and she loved it. She loved the recruiting, and she had so many relationships, she started in a recruiting meeting that then she even if the student didn't even come to the school she was working at, she stayed connected with that family for years after. And her energy and her passion just like shone through, and the parents loved it. And the students, I would be like, Don't they think that's a bit much? And they didn't, they loved it too. And I just it taught me like it doesn't matter what I like going into it. I needed to let that go. I needed to just be excited about what we were doing and proud of the programming that I had to offer these students and talk about it and just be excited about getting to know them as people and showing that in the recruiting process. And so I just was it just every day when we hired her at South Carolina. I remember she's so positive and she was so upbeat. And I was like, I just don't know if we're gonna vibe. And I I actually said this one in my eulogy. I was like, I just she's so peppy, like I just don't know. It's a lot. How can somebody be this positive all the time? And then as you get to know her more and you see like more about her, you realize like she's a very authentic, genuine person, but she is a she is also very happy, and it just was so refreshing in our field because I think we are all passionate and we all care, but to have somebody who's always just that happy all the time and every day when not and not showing how like tired she is, was just so refreshing to me. And then she truly became my person. And so as she went to Virginia Tech and I went to Austin P, she went to Coastal Carolina, and I came to the NCAA, she still became my person every day at the end of the day. We would talk, and it would, you know, usually be a lot longer than I planned. I'm like, how do we even have anything left to say to each other? And we'd still be talking, but we'd run down kind of how our days went, what we were experiencing, what was going on, and we were both very real with each other. We encouraged each other, we supported each other, we saw a lot of things the same way, but when we didn't, we could challenge each other in a positive way, and I think it was so helpful. And we both had a passion for like wanting to do things so well and make things the best and all of that. And I remember when she got to Coastal Carolina, she was trying to develop a student development program there. And she was sending me stuff all the time. Like she was so she always was getting revigorated like with things that were happening. So she always is even though she was an academic, sh then she'd take over the intern program and she got rejuvenated by that. And she's like, I've gotta, I gotta make this the best program that we have. And then she'd start, you know, doing the graduation ceremony. They didn't have that at Virginia Tech. And so she's like, I we gotta have a graduation ceremony, like this has gotta happen. And so it's just I just it was infectious to be around her and to be like see the passion that came out of her. And then just was her friend, like we'd be together on a Saturday hanging out, and she's FaceTiming her students, and like they just they both are having so much fun. Like she just had such amazing relationships with them and made such an impact on her student athletes. It's just it was unbelievable. She was one of a kind, and I I miss her dearly. Yeah, and I missed the impact she was making on people and her thoughtfulness. This is the last thing I'll say, just her thoughtfulness of like to your point, like sending out the cards at the beginning of every year. And she'd always kind of she's like, Who do you think? I'm like, Elise, you got like a hundred people on that list. I don't I have no idea. I'm like, I don't, and and then I I but then I my staff got one when she got to know them, and they just it meant so much to them. And I just am like, you are so thoughtful.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

So thoughtful.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

It was and it's just impressive how she always knew. And then of course, as she was fighting through cancer, yeah, she was still sending out those things. She'd still send me like, good luck on this presentation today. And I'm like, You got chemo today, what are you doing? And I fought with her a lot in the end of like, you need to just go take care of yourself, you need to stop doing this. But I her mom and I talked about it a lot, and we know that that's what kept her going for so long is the love she had for this job and the students and the field. And she just it kept her going. And so I had this I had to step back and be like, This isn't me. This is her journey and this is what she wants to do, and it's fulfilling her. And so I g I gotta stop worrying about it. Like this is what she wants to do.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

So yeah, two things before we move on. Thank you first and foremost for really taking us on a personal journey with you and Elise. Shout out to Coastal Carolina. They named the Department of Student Athlete Development and Engagement in her name. I just love that. At some point, want to make my way there and uh be able to just see the space be in the space. Um but secondly, you know, Katie, you uh came to see me at NC State um a year or so ago, two years ago.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Yeah, I think two years ago.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

I remember um it was it was such a such a treat to have both of you in my office together and to do that selfie and just catch up. And like you said, her focus was on Raymond, how are you doing? How are you doing? I'm like, I'm good, how are you? And so thank you. Thank you for uh willing to take the space and and really fill it up with Elise. And I'll say this keep doing what you're doing, Katie. She's living through all of us. I know this podcast is inspired by people like Elise. I say her name every morning, FYI. So I'm very thankful for the time that I've had with her, but also been able to live through the relationship that you just shared. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Yeah, no, thanks for letting me share about her because I'm happy to do that anytime. And Marlon was a mentor of hers, so it's just like it's just you know, it's just amazing how it all connects.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Crazy. If if we could all do our last day on this planet, stay fully engaged in our passion and do what we know we do best. We've all lived a good life. So we know that she did in that way. Thank you. Thank you for sharing the relationship. Um one thing that I was going to ask, but I have already gotten the answer for in the course of our conversation is what prompted you to exit the campus space into the national office space. And then I heard you talk about enjoying structure, building systems, data analysis, evaluating certification limit.

unknown 46:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Just talk a little bit about it.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

All the clues, Gene, all the clues.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

Oh, yeah, oh yeah. No, I I I I mean it it it all makes so much sense. It all makes sense. I mean, there's some some of those things. I have a weird kind of obsession with uh spreadsheets and outcomes and how it looks, and so I get I get some of that. But we'll just talk a little bit about that transition and and uh how it feeds you in terms of your passion for the student athlete experience.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Yeah. Well, I was looking for a new opportunity. I felt like I had done a lot on campus, um, and I had was still working study hall every night. And I said, you know, maybe it's time for something different and new. And so someone had sent me this job at the NCAA, and I was like, never thought of moving to Indiana, um, never thought of working there. But this is intriguing, and it was like in the academic space, and I was like, okay, this sounds pretty good. And so I interviewed, got the job, and I had no idea what I was doing. I had no idea what the NCAA actually did, if I'm being very honest. In my academic spaces on campus, our compliance people typically handled the communication with the NCAA. So I didn't even know what RSRO was, which is how people put in their interpretation requests and waiver requests. And I was hearing all these acronyms when I got there, and I'm like, I have no idea what you guys are talking about. And I'm just gonna look at it from my campus lens and say, this is why this should be that way. And I'm appreciative that they wanted that a person who had campus experience so that I could bring that perspective, which has been very good for me. But it's been a huge learning curve of learning how, you know, I had never written an interpretation before, and I had to learn how to do that because I'm very blunt as well. And you know, my staff and my students will tell you that. Like, I try to show you I care so that I can be blunt with you on the back end. And so if a school asks a question, I just be like, can I just tell them like yes or no? Like, can I just say that? It's like, well, we gotta write it out in a way that's like it's similar to the bylaws that are in there. And I'm like, yeah, but they're asking us the question because the bylaw wasn't clear. So um, it's been amazing though. It was a huge growth opportunity for me to really get out of my comfort zone and and into a new space and figure things out. And I think, you know, immediately they were also great about letting me get involved in. We have the accelerating academic success program, which is the ASP grants that we have. I was a recipient of one on my campus at Austin P. And it was so nice to now be on the other side of like helping facilitate those and being a liaison with the schools who are getting those. And so immediately they let me do that, which was great. They started letting me help with the data reviews, which is the certification process and making sure schools are doing it properly. And I loved that because again, I love certification. But the reason I love certification is it's because it's getting a student to graduation. I really still feel that is my North Star in all the chaos and craziness that is happening. I want to help students. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 49:39

Your mission.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

And so it's always been when I'm helping a school like through a data review, I love the relationships I can build with the schools now and helping them make their processes more efficient, make sure they're helping advise these students the right way, making sure they're getting them to graduation. And so that has been, I've had to shift it, right? My relationships with my students was so important to me for a long time. Then it was my staff, and now it's the schools and the membership that I get to work with and trying to figure out how we can help them the most. And putting a face to the NCAA brand, I think that we get lost behind that a lot. And I just want people to know like, we're human. I get it. I do, I was on campus doing exactly what you're doing. Like, how can I help you? But still holding people accountable. Like, you still got to do these things, and you still have to make sure you're doing them right so that we're not hurting our students in the process either. I I I've been on a mission since I started here to make sure people understand. Because I I have a ton of people on my Facebook feed who are just like, I hate the NCAA. They're so, you know, I'm sick of these, and then that's hard. That's kind of hard to deal with, to be honest. And I, you know, even my brother, I'm like, do you understand how this works? And I'm like, you know, there's committees made up of membership, and that's the people that, you know, like ADs and administrators and coaches and FARs that are coming from all these schools, and they're deciding how we enforce what we're enforcing. And so, yes, while I think that we need to work on modernizing things and evolving with the times, there's this governance process that we have to work through and we have to manage. And so I like people to know that because I didn't know that. I also used to blame the NCAA for things, and now I just want to make sure that people know like it's not us just over here just saying, like, let them transfer all the time. Sure, we were good with that. That's not if you weren't paying attention to the news, that's not how right.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

We I had a colleague that I worked with at Arizona State for some years who was previously at the NCAA, and he would always remind everyone of that.

SPEAKER_03 51:54

Yeah, I think I think what you just did was a perfect segue to my to my final question and and statement to you. There's been a lot of change in college athletics. Um transfer portal, revenue share, NIL, all the different things. Now that you are on the other side working at the NCAA, there's still a heart that you have for the work on campus. There's no way that it can't continue to exist within you. So asking you to exhibit that same heart as you talk to younger professionals or professionals that are struggling and trying to make a decision of whether they need to stay the route, um, stay in this space. Uh, why would you, what reason would you give them from your perspective of why you stay driven and a way to encourage them to remain driven in this field?

SPEAKER_00 52:43

I think you have to figure out your why. And it's got to align with like doing this work. Because I think we've said that for years, even before all of these changes in recent years, the hours were still a lot and the pay was still not great, and you had to move around to kind of move up, and it's always been a challenge. And so if you didn't know your why going into it, then you were gonna burn out pretty quickly anyway. And I think that's exactly the case now. You have to know your why. And my why, as I've said before, continues to be to graduate these student athletes because I truly believe education sets them up for so many more opportunities down the road. Um, and I've seen that happen. I've seen it happen in so many ways. And and when I say education, I'm really big on this. I don't think it's the books, always the books and the classwork. I think it's everything you're getting along the way. And, you know, I learned so much in college beyond just the classroom. It's like helped me grow as a person. And that's why it matters so much to me with my student athletes. We're gonna get through the academic work, we're gonna get to you to your end goal of what you want to do in your life, but let's also have meaningful conversations along the way and let's grow as people together. Like let's have these hard conversations and let's talk about politics and let's talk about race and let's talk about things that are difficult so that we can both grow from these experiences and these conversations. And so I think it's just really important to know what is it that's motivating you and what is going to keep you going. And right now it's still the students for me, even though they're getting paid more than I am in some places. I think it's important that we're helping their 18 and 19-year-olds getting all of this and they don't know how to handle it. And Charlie, our president, would be so happy for me bringing this up, but like the sports wagering stuff. I don't know if y'all have been paying attention to any of that, but like these students are getting hounded for these prop bets and these sports wagering, and they're being told, like, you just lost me millions of dollars because you've missed the free throw or whatever. And we just have no idea the pressures that they're under. And so I think it's finding a way to, you know, if you're in this space, I hope it's because you care about the students at the end of the day and you want to help them reach some goal, whatever it is you think is important for them, and whatever they want to reach. And so I think that is the biggest thing is just knowing your why, sticking to your why, revisiting your why when it is getting difficult, and so that you can stay motivated yourself. You have to find a way, you're motivating them all the time. You got to find a way to motivate yourself sometimes as well.

SPEAKER_03 55:13

Gene, we've always talked about this as being the most ingenuous human development platform there is. Katie just talked a lot about why this work is important and we continue to make sure that we show up in ways to help our student athletes. And part of the reason why we did this podcast is just to do that, is to humanize them. Humanize them again, talk about people, talk about the people behind the scenes, but also talk about the level of impact that we're having on young people beyond entertainment and uh and competition. There's more to it than that. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you for being with us. Good seeing you.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

Yeah, you too.

SPEAKER_03 55:50

Gene, anything else you have for Katie before we close out?

SPEAKER_02 55:53

Well, I'm also thankful for your time, all the stories that Raymond and others have told. I mean, I feel like I have a much more intimate personal connection with you coming into this than you know, seeing each other at convention or on a phone call or Zoom, and really appreciative of understanding kind of the deeper why for you. Um, and I think many people will be impacted by that. So thank you again.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

Thank you. I enjoyed it, it was a lot of fun.